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NAveryW

Age/Gender: 19, Male
Location: Texas or something
Job: Squirrel shaver

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Entry #7

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NAveryW

Valhalla Knights Isn't Really That Good

Posted by NAveryW Jun. 24, 2008 @ 3:40 PM EDT

What I'm saying here is probably going to be controversial, considering the shorts themselves are quite revered. Therefore, I'd like anyone who disagrees with me to respond with why.

Of the two chapters of Valhalla Knights that have been released, I really wasn't impressed. I'm not talking about the animation quality; no, the animation itself is quite satisfactory. I'm referring to everything else.

From what I've seen, literally none of the story is original. A man who became a police officer because his father was killed by criminals, for example, is a trope not even limited to cop dramas (think Batman and Star Wars, for example). The line "It's not always like the movies, you know?" is the type of line that's so overused that I'm surprised it's not just used in parodies. Furthermore, Ken's statements in the first episode don't make any sense. He said smilingly "I like this job", mentioning that there was only one thing that bothered him about it (implied to be his boss), yet right after talking to him, he said "Man I'm done I better start looking for a new job" (sic). Was his boss yelling at him like that really such a bad experience that he didn't want to be a police officer anymore? Even though he was the one who was late? Is that really logical at all?

I'm going to skip over the "magical artifact handed over by dying ancestor" trope for now, because although it is used quite a bit, it can still be done respectably. Now I'm going to focus on the "naked young woman appearing out of nowhere who the protagonist has to take care of" trope. That part might seem interesting or even innovative if you haven't seen Chobits, Kono Mini, Elfen Lied, or... jeez, there was definitely a fourth one I had thought of, but I can't remember it for now. And Kono Mini and Elfen Lied took what was already a trope and subverted it (in pretty much the same way, actually)...

Basically, to sum it up, I don't see why people like the story so much. As a Flash, it's... erm... flashy, but if this were released as an actual film or television series, I really don't think it would be taken seriously. Are Newgrounds viewers not familiar with how much of the story was taken from other sources, or do they just not care? Or is it simply because it's well-animated for an amateur Flash?

I'd really like to see any dissenting opinions posted in comments here, not necessarily for debate purposes, but to help me understand why people like Valhalla Knights so much despite its (to me) lack of narrative merit.

P.S. I love those The Real Legend shorts and thought F E A R and Moonlight were pretty good.

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The People Have Spoken

37 Comments

Jun. 24, 2008 | 3:44 PM Pig-Fart says:

Son of god,
Awesome ass bod,
Two Golden Globes,
One Emmy Nod.

Jun. 24, 2008 | 5:09 PM NAveryW responds:

...What?


Jun. 24, 2008 | 3:47 PM Dazmi says:

meh, I don't care.
It's just a flash.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 3:57 PM HolyPeanuts says:

I would have to agree, I think Granfaloon's other stuff kicks the living shit out of Valhalla knights.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 4:09 PM Lalo says:

Yea you're right. its the same shit will all the recent cartoons tho, look at the top 50... i dont think they deserve to be in that list, im talking about brawl taunts, grand theft awesome, etc etc...


Jun. 24, 2008 | 4:11 PM Saryn says:

Hm, I liked at first, but I was...Around twelve when I watched it, I re-watched it a few minutes ago...And didn't like it so much, you're right...Moonlight is my favorite among them.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 4:15 PM OdHero says:

when i was watching i was looking so much more at the animation and admitted didn;t pay too much attention to the story. I payed so little attention that I had said to myself I should rewatch but didn't. In the second I noticed the story was poor, and what you said about part one, I think your right, it does seem like alot of cliches. Comapred to alot of stuff though watching it does feel like a more orginal flash then alot of the other things here.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 4:16 PM EvilSeed says:

No, he tought he was going to be fired because he was late... or at least thats what i think....

But... ummm.... why do you care so much? i mean, yes, original content is nice, but is really that bad if someone does something similar to something else, at least they are characters created by himself, and at least they are not sprites... but thats not really the point... IMO, at this point, wanting to emulate someone or something esle is not that bad...but if youre going to do comercial stuff, then yeah, it could be a problem... but right now, as free flash animation... its fine for me.

Jun. 24, 2008 | 5:11 PM NAveryW responds:

It's not a huge deal to me, but looking through the reviews for part two, There are about two pages of reviews with scores lower than 10, and the rest are all 10s. That's what piqued my interest.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 4:24 PM lenkobiscuit says:

"Or is it simply because it's well-animated for an amateur Flash?"

Bingo. That, and you know the newgrounds audience, they fucking love naked cartoon chicks : /

They were a fun watch though, not everything has to be original to be entertainin.

Also its weird that you enjoyed moonlight more when that short pretty much played off loads of cliches.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 4:27 PM Catoblepas says:

He is the hippinest hoppinest messiah.
If you heard different, you heard it from a liar.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 4:38 PM Adidaas says:

Glad someone agrees with me.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 4:40 PM Revolution-Wolf says:

When I saw your post title on the front page, I thought this was going to be some rambling article that stated, to the general effect, that "VAlHAlaa Nikghts SuX0 BAllz!!!111!!1!".

I was pleasantly surprised, however. You do bring up some good points. But the truth is, in these days where video game parodies absolutely dominate NG, SOME breaths of originality are needed, and Valhalla Knights brings what few it has. Yes, it's cliche, but so is a lot of shit on here. If someone was a great writer, chances are they wouldn't be hanging around NG.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 4:46 PM JonBro says:

I enjoyed the first Valhalla Knights. I like how it created the setting for the rest of the series and left quite a few mysteries unsolved. It made it seem like the series would have a lot of potential. Of course, in retrospect, I guess it's more like a trailer than the beginning of a big film, hehe.

The second one, however, disappointed me. In terms of animation, it didn't even have nearly as much detail as the first. In terms of everything else, it was kind of bleh as well. All the events in the movie were incredibly random and made no sense (naked angel falling from sky), the movie overall was a bit slow (it took a long time for two things to happen), and it didn't even seem natural. If I was in the middle of a shoot-em-up and I saw a naked chick on the ground, I don't see why I would pick her up and carry her off. I'd be more likely to run off and tell everyone what I saw instead. o_o

I agree with you about Valhalla Knights for the most part. Granfaloon's other movies are much more interesting and entertaining.

...

What made you type up such a long rant about some movies that have been out for such a long time?

Jun. 24, 2008 | 5:16 PM NAveryW responds:

I don't really consider it a "rant", as I'm not complaining; my opinion is just different from the majority of that on NG.

I've been meaning to write this since the second part came out... I don't remember what made me just now think to do so.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 5:11 PM Zenaki says:

I don't understand why you did this, needlessly picking at a flash series, I'm sure you'd be annoyed if another author randomly made a topic specifically attacking your work. It may have a few errors and you may call it unoriginal but as you have said you've only seen the first two episodes so it would be unfair to judge it right now. It's got good animation which is better than most (I know you werent refering to the animation quality but it is one of the better animated flashes). But anyway It just seemed harsh and unnessecary for you to make this topic for no reason. Why fill up the front page artist news with your opinion on someone elses flash.

Jun. 24, 2008 | 5:35 PM NAveryW responds:

I'm not trying to defame the work. I'm posting a dissenting opinion to understand why other people like something so much that I don't. This is not an attack,

If someone posted something like this on my Flashes, I'd welcome it as long as they provide good reasons and don't just say "OF THE COUCH SUCKS" without providing any explanation.

If you look at the "news" that occupies the front page, you'll find that much of it is more unnecessary than this hyar topic.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 5:20 PM NAveryW says:

I remember what the fourth anime I was going to list was: To LOVE-Ru. However, on a closer look, I found that the first Valhalla Knights was released before To LOVE-Ru began serialization.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 5:31 PM RPGamer says:

I assumed he was fired, never thought of that? I think that's why he says he needs to find another job. And about the story, first of it has just started, you don't know how is it going to turn out, and besides he is just using part of stories from other animes and such for his own series, even though the stories may seem overused they are still good, maybe he just tried an approach on something that worked. I don't know you're just thinking about this too much if you want the story made different you should suggest stuff to him personally if you haven't already


Jun. 24, 2008 | 5:33 PM jakobhummelen says:

I'm on the same line with you.. yet Valhalla Knights has a strange attraction to it that makes me wanna see more... (maybe I hope it improves?)


Jun. 24, 2008 | 5:43 PM SuperSmurf says:

I actually agree. I think animation and graphics wise, it's incredible. The story, however, is the epitome of the "naked young woman appearing out of nowhere who the protagonist has to take care of" trope.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 5:44 PM BMack24 says:

ken: 'it won't happen again!'
chief: 'yeah... you can bet your ass.'

i'm pretty sure that means he WAS fired. he basically said 'it won't happen again cuz you won't be working here anymore.' thus the 'man i'm done... i better start looking for a new job...' so now that he's unemployed, he starts thinking about the bundle and the necklace that he has to keep.

i'm hoping the next part will explain why the woman and the wizard guy decided to come out of the necklaces in which they were sealed, as well as their identities, because i do agree that the second part didn't advance the plot as much as it could've.

also, i'm surprised you didn't mention the lame voice acting, which i think is its biggest flaw.

Jun. 24, 2008 | 6:06 PM NAveryW responds:

Yes, I made a mistake about the "fired" thing. I don't know why I didn't notice that...

I also agree about the voice acting, but that's rather subjective, so I left it out.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 6:46 PM Xantor says:

You know... when I was watching it, I too felt like something was "wrong" with the movie. I'm talking about not getting this satisfactory feeling that a good piece of entertainment provides (I hope some people catch me there). The animation is good, however the story a bit bland.

I never really thought about it... it seems the - how you called it - "flashy" appearence of the movie blinds some people (yeah, I admit it; me included). It's easier to label it as good, because the animation is supreme, than dealing with every detail, like story, sound etc.

We should add "flashes with good animation, but bad story" to the list of "guaranteed fives", like video game parodies, anime flashes and such.

It doesn't mean they are not good, it does only mean they are not THAT good, because we concentrate on the surface too much, without digging holes in it and seeing what's inside.

To sum it up: Valhalla Knights is not that bad, but still missing something, like many other movies on Newgrounds... the only thing that's different this time is that we face a movie with supreme animation and bland story, instead of a movie with poor animation, but good references.

Just my humble Opinion


Jun. 24, 2008 | 7:01 PM JonBro says:

Sorry, maybe our definitions of the word 'rant' are a bit different.

I'm afraid to ask this, since it's off-topic and you've most likely been asked this a bajillion times, but... Are you planning on making a third Nicholas' Weird Adventure Flash game? I know you're planning on making an Enthalpy console game, but will there be another little game for the Internet to see before that?

Jun. 24, 2008 | 9:38 PM NAveryW responds:

Yes; I made a previous post that dealt with this, but i didn't put it on the front page.

Actually, as I don't have Flex, I'm probably going to make the third one with Papervision instead of SWFZ.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 7:06 PM adudeok says:

I pretty much agree with you, its not very orginal. The main reasons people like it are:
1) the standrad on newgrounds isnt that high, most flashes have either a good idea and bad animation or good animation but just a decent idea. Vahalla knights somehow looks good and it touches people...

I see where your coming from.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 7:06 PM KuoryDaNinja says:

I don't want to write a long reply, but I agree with ya


Jun. 24, 2008 | 7:07 PM kojikoji says:

Well, I like the series; It isn't amazing, but it is good, I like most of his work, and this series he has going on now seems promising. Yes, some of the things are most likely inspired by other stories; But honestly... It's so rare to see anything different anymore. I mean, when i deeply think about it, nearly every story is the same when it comes to a book, movie, anime, etc. I guess the small differences in what happens and how it happens are what draw me to everything. It's just too silly to say a flash movie isn't good because it draws concepts from another story, because as i stated earlier; mostly everything is. A movie with an original plot? God, I rarely see them; It's almost always "Guy wants to take over earth/destroy earth and said hero stops it" Or something happens to the hero, resulting in him needing to justify what has happened or get revenge.

So all in all, I think I myself like the series BECAUSE of all the wonderful inspired concepts from different movies and etc.

Besides, when a girl appears like that, it's meant to be angelical if you ask me.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 8:39 PM Wurmy says:

So you're a troll


Jun. 24, 2008 | 8:57 PM peterf1 says:

Ahah! another troper. You're even in my state.

now, for my opinion.

On the naked young lady bit-yeah, I didn't exactly like that. One wonders what the reaction to a police officer carrying a naked, knocked out woman would be.
I can only hope that he shows that.

on the story overall-Don't look at it to closely. It looks like it's shaping up to be just a simple adventure story, and really, that's more than fine with me. On Newgrounds, complicated plots with expert writing teams rarely exist, and since the quality of most flash animation is fairly poor, just seeing something put together that well is a huge sucess. No, it might not have the best writing ever, but it is still fun to watch.

though i'd put it at around a seven or eight myself.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 11:04 PM een777 says:

lol, im guessing ppl vote it so high because it gives them something they can relate to while putting the image that its "original".

if u want something original on newgrounds, u gotta be able to sell it with nice graphics cuz ppl do come up with original and good shit, but they don't have the flash talent to put into reality. unfortunately the ppl that do have "talent" are the ones taking and mixing other ideas with their own and then for some, bitching bout how much their fans love their shit... *cough* alvin earthworm *cough*..

i agree wit u bout valhalla knights, i think the newgrounds system is there for ppl to come up with original stuff, but every1 knows that making a spin off or a parody gets the votes...


Jun. 24, 2008 | 11:24 PM BlissfulProductions says:

And code geass.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 11:25 PM BlissfulProductions says:

Oh! and not to mention "the bad guys who are demons who have a commander who come from no where to abduct the special thing no one knows what it is" trope.


Jun. 24, 2008 | 11:48 PM GreenCastle says:

Anytime you say anything negative about anything on NG or the internet in general there are going to be people here "wondering" why you would bother "complaining" about such a thing, because apathy is trendy. It's a lot easier not to care about someone else's opinion than it is to respond to it. So I would like to acknowledge you for making a thoughtful and well structured post.

BTW we actually agree on Valhalla Knights but that's beside the point


Jun. 25, 2008 | 7:41 AM SketchZeppelin says:

in this day and age it's all but impossible to do somthing that hasn't already been done. what makes somthing that takes from somthing else stand out is how it's told or in the animations case how its presented. Vallhalla Nights is presented in fairly well. The animation is nice the characters designs are solid, the paceing feels alright as do the shot angles. The dialouge is bad but at least it doesn't eat up 99% of the animation and the characters are repeating the same trype over and over again (two sins that most anime is guilty of)

but most importantly you have to consider that this wasn't done by a production company and so isn't going to be stellar. with newgrounds an animation is mainly like bragging rights. an example of the animators skill and i feel Valhalla Knights is a step above most of what is on newgrounds. you can complain that the story isn't too original but it's still well done.


Jun. 25, 2008 | 11:02 AM Glunnator says:

Nothing. And I mean NOTHING, is truly original.

It's a well-done series and yes, it's cliché, but right... tell me what isn't.

All things are either ripoffs or mixups of previous ideas.
Pure new ideas are so rare they can be taken as extinct.

Jun. 25, 2008 | 7:10 PM NAveryW responds:

There's a difference between using ideas that have been used before and taking every single plot point from copies of copies.


Jun. 25, 2008 | 11:12 AM Minty-Hippo says:

Firefly is another naked girl needing care.


Jun. 25, 2008 | 12:24 PM WhiteRain says:

you do prove something,that almost everything on newgrounds is just remakes with a few twists but nothing serious. thats the problem Im having with "Trinity" my brother was the one that came up with the story so without him here (hes in south america attending college) Im stuck in a point of Trinity where I could release it but it wouldnt make any sense at all or just wait for my brother to get here :I


Jun. 25, 2008 | 2:12 PM Burni says:

I see your point, i really like all the granfaloon´s flashes, but you have to consider that everybody has a diferent point of view


Jun. 25, 2008 | 6:26 PM FightingSeraph says:

I see where you're coming from even though I haven't seen Valhalla Knights.


Jun. 25, 2008 | 6:27 PM HangManFred says:

I agree with you, I didn't really like the Valhalla Knights animations. I thought the second one was really boring, I didn't even finish it. The animation is good, like you said.
Also, I see nothing wrong about telling why you dislike a series as long as you give points to why you don't and ways to improve said flash.


Jun. 25, 2008 | 7:33 PM nyquilpills says:

you shouldn't go into everything only thinking about cliches or what's been done before. it's better to just be objective and look at everything individually so you enjoy things more.

as for the actual flash it was okay but it hasn't really indulged into very much for me to say anything.

Jun. 25, 2008 | 10:26 PM NAveryW responds:

So I should be completely unperturbed by plagiarism?

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